PvE ... a bit too easy? - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

glacialphoenix · Aug 05, 2009, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

normal mode = original game
hard mode = brand new mode introduced in 2007

so no... nm isn't any easier than the original, because it is the original

Ah - I'm just checking official wiki here:

"After hard mode was released, normal mode was made slightly easier and later updates made it so that foes would respond more slowly to AoE. "

So yes, they did tone it down.

Admittedly there are also other factors for OP finding it easier, like power creep, but they did tone it down.

HawkofStorms · Aug 05, 2009, 01:40 AM // 01:40

All they did was alter the mob AI.
They didn't actually make NM easier.
Quoting the wiki isn't exactly "authority" since the wiki is player maintained.

snaek · Aug 05, 2009, 02:46 AM // 02:46

well technically, enemy ai didn't scatter to aoe in the first place. although, your right in that it did change upon the coming of hard mode (can almost be considered a revert), i don't consider this a "significant" factor in making normal mode easier, as aoe scatter was mostly implemented in the first place as an anti-farming measure.

glacialphoenix · Aug 05, 2009, 04:11 AM // 04:11

^

I don't know, I've heard enough screaming about 'fix ROJ' and also about how the dratted fool ele cast Fire Storm and made the boss run off... but that's not for this thread.

Point conceded, my mistake; I will chalk it up to nostalgia and power creep. Even so, I think the rest of my post still stands.

takilla · Aug 05, 2009, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Thanks for the responses all. FYI:

- I have started NF and I consider it to be a little bit harder so far, but doesn't seem significant

- I have tried some elite quests. My friend and I are trying to work our way through Sorrows Furnace. The level of difficulty here is a little more to my taste. We're not really coordinating builds or using gimmick builds so it is fairly hard. We have yet to finish the first quest we tried in there (unspeakable, unthinkable?)

. I think we have it figured out now though.

- I do look forward to trying EotN and HM and vanquishing. Seems like those will require some effort.

- I suppose my point was more that I would expect a certain level of difficulty, even in NM from the last 3 missions in the game. I'm not saying that all of PvE is easy ... just that I would think those last 3 missions would be. So far it's not the case.

glacialphoenix · Aug 05, 2009, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

I suppose my point was more that I would expect a certain level of difficulty, even in NM from the last 3 missions in the game. I'm not saying that all of PvE is easy ... just that I would think those last 3 missions would be. So far it's not the case.

That may very much be due to power creep, really - stronger and stronger spells and skills coming out in later expansions, making it easier to pwn earlier campaigns. For one thing, you have the stronger skills that came out in those later campaigns, and the bosses won't.

ambergris · Aug 05, 2009, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Maybe I'm just a sissy newb but I don't think it's too easy. At this point, I don't even want to know what hard mode is like. (just my two cents)

MrKendl · Aug 05, 2009, 05:25 PM // 17:25

With Discord necro's everything is easy.
NM , HM and UBERHM :P

l Rainy l · Aug 05, 2009, 10:07 PM // 22:07

GW PvE is a joke. WoW pve as you mentioned is much more complex and personally rewarding.

This said, GW PvP is 94783478 times more rewarding than that of WoW as it isn't based on gear. So if you get bored with pve try that.

Zidane Ortef · Aug 05, 2009, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by l Rainy l

WoW pve as you mentioned is much more complex and personally rewarding.

You sir are making me LMAO. I'm almost to the point of doing a Roflcopter right here on my floor.

takilla · Aug 06, 2009, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zidane Ortef

You sir are making me LMAO. I'm almost to the point of doing a Roflcopter right here on my floor.

I don't understand that reaction. Maybe it's changed now but it seemed like in WoW PvE when I was playing it (assuming you were the level of the instance) you really really had to know what you were doing and play with some skill/planning or you were screwed. You had to have a somewhat balanced team and execute strats with some skill.

Granted, if you had a group that was decent and knew their role and the entire instance it was pretty easy.

Correct me if I'm wrong but in GW it seems like:

1. You don't need a balanced team really. A group of all warriors (for instance) could easily get through most missions.

2. You don't need to know any particular strat for a given area. You can pretty much stumble in and dps the hell out of everything.

3. You don't need to know a mission all that well to roll through it in one try.

4. You can make mistakes like crazy and still get through missions. An ele can nuke everything in sight and be fine if he gets a couple heals/uses some prot skills.

5. Boss fights are not the tense/difficult/longish affairs they are in WoW. Many end mission bosses die in like 5-8 secs of simple dpsing. Not to mention when you do kill them there is practically no chance at all of them dropping a really really nice item to upgrade your char or get some gold. I have never gotten a single drop from a chest or boss or mob in GW that I was excited about really.

Now, I will say that I'm still having fun and enjoying GW and I do really like the idea of being able to custimize and have different skill combos ... but I really have to say that the PvE aspect is not quite as good as WoW in some ways.

Shemsu Anpw · Aug 06, 2009, 03:40 PM // 15:40

I'm sorry I have played a number of other MMO's and none of them had the versatility GW has. I have to ROFLMAO as well. I Would like to see some unique flashy gear for each of the classes, but versatility? GW ftw.

EDIT: After reading the above post I would have to say as far as Boss battles go you have a point. But GW approches things differently. The Elite areas are meant to be long hard areas like in other games Boss Fights. The down side is that with nothing new in the Elite areas they have become so familiar now some people have come up with gimmick builds that can speed clear them. Thats just the nature of a 5 year old game. I would also prefer well known areas in GW then having to get a 20 person party together to raid....only to have a Leroy Jenkins wipe the party.

king_trouble · Aug 06, 2009, 03:41 PM // 15:41

PvE is broken, simple as that

takilla · Aug 06, 2009, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shemsu Anpw

I'm sorry I have played a number of other MMO's and none of them had the versatility GW has. I have to ROFLMAO as well. I Would like to see some unique flashy gear for each of the classes, but versatility? GW ftw.

I agree that versatility is nice in a way ... but you also lose something there. I remember in WoW one thing that was a gift and a curse was that certain classes are expected to do certain things. If you were a good priest/healer you were very valuable and people would actually need a good healer to do well. In GW this isn't the case. You never really see people saying "oh, we need a tank here or we're in trouble." At least with the content I've played so far you could literally take anyone. It sort of makes every role feel less important when you could replace someone so easily. Again, I can see how there are upsides to it as well ... just a thought.

The other thing for versatility: your character in GW isn't well defined at all. They can go from having 4 healing skills and being good at that, to having all dps skilils and being good at that. It sort of makes all the characters just these amorphous generic blobs that can be anything at any time a the drop of a hat. I can see how people like that ... but it does pretty much take any suspension of belief (IE this character could be a real person) and throw it out the window.

"Semara Tornal is a powerful sorceress that summons evil minions to fight ... wait ... no that was 5 minutes ago now she's a kind life giving healer that protects her allies from ... wait no ... sorry ... now she is a flame tossing nuker ... ah hell"

Given, it is a video game and all ... but that still throws me off a little.

Revelations · Aug 06, 2009, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by takilla

At least with the content I've played so far you could literally take anyone.

Today's Zquest is the Deep. Not that I'd gauge it to be incredibly difficult, but go there, turn on HM, invite the first 11 people you see, and hit enter. Enjoy.

However, PvE is always going to be easy in basically every current MMO, due to it's static nature. Sure, the first few times you try something difficult you're probably going to wipe, and frequently. But it NEVER CHANGES. So you should know exactly what to expect up until where you failed the previous time. That knowledge is what makes PvE easy. Unless you're playing with idiots who don't learn and continue to make the same mistakes, then areas in PvE will become easier every time you attempt them.

glacialphoenix · Aug 07, 2009, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

You never really see people saying "oh, we need a tank here or we're in trouble." At least with the content I've played so far you could literally take anyone. It sort of makes every role feel less important when you could replace someone so easily.

Well... if you do well in a particular role, regardless of class, people are going to appreciate that. It's not that you don't need a particular role, I think, just that different classes can fill that role. Which I personally feel is a good thing - means you don't have to stand around waiting ages for that one last person to turn up. I've been in groups where you needed a particular role, and you could see something like four/five (if not more) groups all hoping for that one last guy to turn up.

Zidane Ortef · Aug 08, 2009, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by takilla

1. You don't need a balanced team really. A group of all warriors (for instance) could easily get through most missions.

Missions are missions there are some that are more challenging then other but by no means are you going to get anywhere with out some sort of backbone (Healers) in a party.

Quote:

Originally Posted by takilla

2. You don't need to know any particular strat for a given area. You can pretty much stumble in and dps the hell out of everything.

Most areas yes, Most areas in the game have no point but to kill to get from Point A to Point B. But when it comes to the Elite areas of the game, DoA, UW, FoW, taking one wrong quest at the wrong time or just remotely agroing something that you didn't need to can cause an instant fail or a complete party wipe and in theses areas there are no rez shrines once all die the game is over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by takilla

3. You don't need to know a mission all that well to roll through it in one try.

Not entirely true. Alot of missions to fully complete them include the bonus objectives and this take a tad bit of thinking to handle them + the mission objectives at the same time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by takilla

4. You can make mistakes like crazy and still get through missions. An ele can nuke everything in sight and be fine if he gets a couple heals/uses some prot skills.

Again same answer as number 1 with the large number of skills available now due to 3 games + 1 expansion the number of possible combination's you can use are more diversified then before back in the Oldschool GW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by takilla

5. Boss fights are not the tense/difficult/longish affairs they are in WoW. Many end mission bosses die in like 5-8 secs of simple dpsing. Not to mention when you do kill them there is practically no chance at all of them dropping a really really nice item to upgrade your char or get some gold. I have never gotten a single drop from a chest or boss or mob in GW that I was excited about really.

The game was never designed this way, some unique boss mobs have the chance to drop the unique weapon that are set to drop but other than that nothing spectacular. Armor all has the same stats, and weapons of 3 small mods that can be interchanged other than that GW was designed for skill rather than doing the same area over and over for better armor we get to do the same area over and over for better weapon skins.

4-8 players choose a specific set of 8 skills that work with each other and accomplish a common goal that's what the initial mind set of GW was.

But as was said earlier more skills more combination add more things to keep track of and Anet does a horrible job at balancing skills, instead they try to fix a gimmick they created but all they end up doing is creating another one.

GW is a farshot from want it once was, lets hope they learn something from it, if not GW2 will just follow in its footsteps and just be a remake with better graphics.

Now my comment about WoW PvE might of looked one-sighted but WoW's PvE as it stands today is worthless they have dumbed down the hardest instance and everything in the game to make it so the players with the least about of skill possible can complete them to get the high tier gear. Where at one time you could walk into a town wearing high tier gear and be respected and viewed as a superior now those pieces of armor or weapons have no significant value anymore. Blizzard Catered to the QQ Carebears leaving there Hardcore players to ponder the meaning of a challenge. Take a look at some forums and you can find post about how they are ready to move on to a new game. There are alot of people posting on Aionsource.com that they are moving over come September.

Nanood · Aug 08, 2009, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Now you should try and solo that mission. See how you go.

Aug 06, 2009, 03:40 PM // 15:40	#32
Shemsu Anpw Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sephirot - Keter	I'm sorry I have played a number of other MMO's and none of them had the versatility GW has. I have to ROFLMAO as well. I Would like to see some unique flashy gear for each of the classes, but versatility? GW ftw. EDIT: After reading the above post I would have to say as far as Boss battles go you have a point. But GW approches things differently. The Elite areas are meant to be long hard areas like in other games Boss Fights. The down side is that with nothing new in the Elite areas they have become so familiar now some people have come up with gimmick builds that can speed clear them. Thats just the nature of a 5 year old game. I would also prefer well known areas in GW then having to get a 20 person party together to raid....only to have a Leroy Jenkins wipe the party. Last edited by Shemsu Anpw; Aug 06, 2009 at 04:07 PM // 16:07..

Aug 05, 2009, 01:40 AM // 01:40	#22
HawkofStorms Hall Hero Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: E/	All they did was alter the mob AI. They didn't actually make NM easier. Quoting the wiki isn't exactly "authority" since the wiki is player maintained.

Aug 05, 2009, 02:46 AM // 02:46	#23
snaek Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2006 Profession: N/	well technically, enemy ai didn't scatter to aoe in the first place. although, your right in that it did change upon the coming of hard mode (can almost be considered a revert), i don't consider this a "significant" factor in making normal mode easier, as aoe scatter was mostly implemented in the first place as an anti-farming measure.

Aug 05, 2009, 04:11 AM // 04:11	#24
glacialphoenix Desert Nomad Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Singapore Guild: Royal Order of Flying Lemmings [ROFL] Profession: Mo/	^ I don't know, I've heard enough screaming about 'fix ROJ' and also about how the dratted fool ele cast Fire Storm and made the boss run off... but that's not for this thread. Point conceded, my mistake; I will chalk it up to nostalgia and power creep. Even so, I think the rest of my post still stands.

Aug 05, 2009, 02:30 PM // 14:30	#25
takilla Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2009 Profession: W/N	Thanks for the responses all. FYI: - I have started NF and I consider it to be a little bit harder so far, but doesn't seem significant - I have tried some elite quests. My friend and I are trying to work our way through Sorrows Furnace. The level of difficulty here is a little more to my taste. We're not really coordinating builds or using gimmick builds so it is fairly hard. We have yet to finish the first quest we tried in there (unspeakable, unthinkable?) . I think we have it figured out now though. - I do look forward to trying EotN and HM and vanquishing. Seems like those will require some effort. - I suppose my point was more that I would expect a certain level of difficulty, even in NM from the last 3 missions in the game. I'm not saying that all of PvE is easy ... just that I would think those last 3 missions would be. So far it's not the case.

Aug 05, 2009, 05:18 PM // 17:18	#27
ambergris Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: CT. USA Guild: Here Comes Trouble [HUGS]	Maybe I'm just a sissy newb but I don't think it's too easy. At this point, I don't even want to know what hard mode is like. (just my two cents)

Aug 05, 2009, 05:25 PM // 17:25	#28
MrKendl Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Belgium Guild: We Want More [hugs] Profession: Rt/Mo	With Discord necro's everything is easy. NM , HM and UBERHM :P

Aug 05, 2009, 10:07 PM // 22:07	#29
l Rainy l Academy Page Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Sofia, Bulgaria Guild: 雨とカルヴン失敗 [おいしい] Profession: Mo/	GW PvE is a joke. WoW pve as you mentioned is much more complex and personally rewarding. This said, GW PvP is 94783478 times more rewarding than that of WoW as it isn't based on gear. So if you get bored with pve try that.

Aug 06, 2009, 03:41 PM // 15:41	#33
king_trouble Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: In the Realm of the Gods Guild: The High Chroniclez Profession: A/	PvE is broken, simple as that

Aug 08, 2009, 09:56 PM // 21:56	#38
Nanood Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Supermans Crystal Palace Guild: Legion Of The Dark Sun	Now you should try and solo that mission. See how you go.